Stock seat belts with Race seats?

[LeeVuong]

Yeah, AND an open targa top. How's that work? You're s'posed to be ejected from the car in the event of a rollover?

As far as I know, tops are required to be installed.

[LeeVuong]

I have seen Porsche GT3 cars with high bolstered raceseats that did not were much different from what most of us have. They only passed the lower belt thru the side opening and the system was legit.

[Matts M3]

So if all work as a system, then if you are wearing 5/6 point belts, then it is very unsafe to use the belts without a HANS device. And we are basically saying keep it stock unless it is a race car.

I will be doing a lot of drivers schools soon, and I am looking for a compromise that always me to not worry about staying in my seat and focusing on my driving. Safety is most important though. Cage is not practical now.

Matt

[Mmark]

Given the force involved in a collision, the sparco shell/3pt belt/ rollover cage combo on the pictured white E46 looks marginal for safety.
I'm not an engineer or nuffink, but:
1, the flat head rests are close to the vertical bars of the cage.
2, the use of stretchable belts that anchor the upper body at one point(although torso should theoreticall swivel away from car perimeter).
3, no padding on proximal bars of cage.
4, the lack of backbrace to reinforce the shell (seat). All make the front seat occupants more vulnerable to head impact against the vertical bars, in a frontal off center impact. A good left front, semi head on impact will ram the passengers head into the R cage upright, and vise versa for a RF inpact.
The belts will stretch and the seats will flex. A 5pt harness will be better due to less stretch and no slack in the tensioning mechanism.

Imo, on this particular car, they should be wearing 5point harnesses, and should not be using 3pt harnesses at all due to the proximity of the cage uprights to the occupants heads.


m

[WBSAK03]

So if all work as a system, then if you are wearing 5/6 point belts, then it is very unsafe to use the belts without a HANS device. Matt

This is not true. 5 and 6 point harness systems are not designed to be used exclusively with a HANS device. There are 5 and 6 point harness systems that are engineered to be more effective when used with the HANS, but it is not correct to say that the use of any 5 or 6 point harness without a HANS is unsafe. The HANS device is simply an additional feature incorporated with a complete safety system.

Christopher

[Brendan]

Regarding the Sparco Roadster Seats:

"this seat is designed for highway use (not recommended for competition purposes)"

http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_street.asp?id=199

[UNHCLL]

IMHO -

I never felt safe with stock belts in my Recaro shells. I added a rollbar and 6 points.

Also, as to why e46's can get away with it from the factory.... again, IMHO, look at the chassis/structure design of the e46. Now look at the e30.

Which do you think will be substantially stronger in a rollover? A-B-C pillars are SIGNIFICANTLY larger on an e46, versus the "spidery" pillars on an e30. Add to that 20+ years of engineering advancements, and I think an e46 will sustain a roll-over a heck of a lot better than an e30.

-C

[UNHCLL]

I will be doing a lot of drivers schools soon, and I am looking for a compromise that always me to not worry about staying in my seat and focusing on my driving. Safety is most important though. Cage is not practical now.

Matt

Keep stock seats and get these: http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...t-legal/rallye

Most don't need shells for DE's. I know I certainly don't.. I got over ambitious and installed them anyways though.

[Matts M3]

What I meant by the HANS comment is that with a standard 3 point seat belt, in the case of an impact part of your body can move with your head helping avoid severe neck injury. With 5 or 6 point belts, your body cannot move and your neck will take the hit instead. I see this as very unsafe.

Matt

[WBSAK03]

What I meant by the HANS comment is that with a standard 3 point seat belt, in the case of an impact part of your body can move with your head helping avoid severe neck injury. With 5 or 6 point belts, your body cannot move and your neck will take the hit instead. I see this as very unsafe.

Matt

Don't believe for a second that 5 or 6 point harnesses are not designed to stretch in the event of an impact. This is the main reason for dating these devices. After a number of years of braking and cornering hard, the webbing will stretch and become less effective. Yes, a HANS makes these systems even more effective as a complete system, but it is absolutely safe to utilize a 5 or 6 point harness without the HANS.

Christopher

[Low Level]

Given the force involved in a collision, the sparco shell/3pt belt/ rollover cage combo on the pictured white E46 looks marginal for safety.
I'm not an engineer or nuffink, but:
1, the flat head rests are close to the vertical bars of the cage.
2, the use of stretchable belts that anchor the upper body at one point(although torso should theoreticall swivel away from car perimeter).
3, no padding on proximal bars of cage.
4, the lack of backbrace to reinforce the shell (seat). All make the front seat occupants more vulnerable to head impact against the vertical bars, in a frontal off center impact. A good left front, semi head on impact will ram the passengers head into the R cage upright, and vise versa for a RF inpact.
The belts will stretch and the seats will flex. A 5pt harness will be better due to less stretch and no slack in the tensioning mechanism.

Imo, on this particular car, they should be wearing 5point harnesses, and should not be using 3pt harnesses at all due to the proximity of the cage uprights to the occupants heads.


m

What's the functional difference between the white car and the CSL, then?

[OnrailsM3]

Keep stock seats and get these: http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...t-legal/rallye

Most don't need shells for DE's. I know I certainly don't.. I got over ambitious and installed them anyways though.

I used this system for a couple years before I had the whole enchelada. This is a great compromise for HPDEs, plus you get to ride to and from the track in your mushy buttery soft compared to shells stock seats.

Get em, you'll be locked in the seat and be a little safer out there, not a whole lot less safter. See Compromise......

[Dominic]

I used this system for a couple years before I had the whole enchelada. This is a great compromise for HPDEs, plus you get to ride to and from the track in your mushy buttery soft compared to shells stock seats.

Get em, you'll be locked in the seat and be a little safer out there, not a whole lot less safter. See Compromise......

So, when you guys were running stock seats and Schroth 4 points, did you have a roll bar or not?

[Mmark]

What's the functional difference between the white car and the CSL, then?

The CSL interior pictured does not feature a rollover rear cage ...No vertical bars right near the naked heads of the front seat occupants.
So it is potentially safer, imo, for non helmeted heads in a collision.( no bar to bash the head on during the recoil from the the collision).

In my E30, the VSR bar vertical bars are not within reach of the head.

m

[Low Level]

The CSL interior pictured does not feature a rollover rear cage ...No vertical bars right near the naked heads of the front seat occupants.
So it is potentially safer, imo, for non helmeted heads in a collision.( no bar to bash the head on during the recoil from the the collision).

In my E30, the VSR bar vertical bars are not within reach of the head.

m

I follow you, and I agree. The point of my post w/ the CSL and standard E46 M3 was to put two basically identical setups up for exhibit --- one being the previously mentioned factory-engineered setup that's regarded as "safe" (the CSL), and the other being an aftermarket setup that replicates the CSL's.

Shown only the standard E46 M3 setup, many would say immediately that it's not safe - so I'm trying to understand why that's not safe, when the CSL's setup is basically the same.