Toyota Tundra Rock Warrior or Ford SVT Raptor

[UNHCLL]

I was thinking from a gas mileage perspective 4wd would cost more. The closer I get to buying the more I'm concerned about gas mileage.

BTW, is 11,300lbs towing capacity enough for an enclosed trailer, race car & gear?

Jake

If you're really concerned with MPG, consider the FX2 package if you're sold on buying a brand new truck.

The benefit to having 4wd if you're not going off-road or dealing with snow is really the ability to move heavy payloads easier. I know when backing a trailer up a steep hill, it always goes easier with less clutch pack destruction when using 4wd vs. 2wd. Pulling a trailer up a wet boat ramp is also a big "glad I have 4wd" check mark too...

The tow capacity question is really "arbitrary" - That depends on:
-What size trailer? 24' 28'?
-Trailer finishings - Plywood deck? Aluminum deck? Paneled walls?
-Steel frame or aluminum frame trailer?
-How many spare wheels/tires? Fuel? Tool chests?
-Weight of the track car - will it always be a E30 or may it become a E36/E46 later on?

For example:
28' Haulmark enclosed trailer - http://www.haulmark.com/bumper-pull_...er/modelegwt3/
Curb weight of 4,300lbs unloaded - only leaves with you with a payload capacity of another 5,700lbs of race car, spares, tools, gear, etc.

You will also be limited by the trailers axle capacity. The one above has axles that limit it to a total of 10,000lbs.

I think you'd be "safe" with an 11,300 capacity, but you would be shocked at how quickly you get there in terms of total weight. Bear in mind, with a trailer even close to that you'll probably want a weight distributing hitch to prevent a ton of rear sag on the truck. I believe the conservative norm is you always want to have ~30% excess capacity in your tow rigs abilities?

Trailer/tow rig setups are as hard to nail down as the optimum S14 engine build.

-CLL

[Brendan]

Yes you should have plenty of capacity to tow an enclosed with your M3 in it. Chris' math is off a little bit - if you have a 4300 lb trailer, you have an extra 7000 lbs to play with in terms of what the truck can haul, so that's a 2800 lb M3 plus another 4200 lbs of tools and gear...

With that said, the one downside of the gas engine is it gets pretty bad gas mileage when towing real heavy loads because you get into boost and stay there... Pickuptrucks.com did a review where they got as low as 8-9 with a maxed out enclosed trailer in Colorado.. They had no complaints about the power, but a diesel is still better suited to towing un-aerodynamic and heavy loads like a fully loaded enclosed...

But, if it's the occasional 6-12 times a year like most of us, you'll be fine...

Here's the article I mentioned if you haven't seen it...

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04...-6-part-1.html

[UNHCLL]

For example:
28' Haulmark enclosed trailer - http://www.haulmark.com/bumper-pull_...er/modelegwt3/
Curb weight of 4,300lbs unloaded - only leaves with you with a payload capacity of another 5,700lbs of race car, spares, tools, gear, etc.

You will also be limited by the trailers axle capacity. The one above has axles that limit it to a total of 10,000lbs.

Chris' math is off a little bit - if you have a 4300 lb trailer, you have an extra 7000 lbs to play with in terms of what the truck can haul, so that's a 2800 lb M3 plus another 4200 lbs of tools and gear...

Sorry, maybe it wasn't clear.. my math was taking into consideration the limit of the trailers accepted total capacity, not just the total capacity of the truck. The Haulmark I linked to above limits it's total weight to 10,000 due to the axles, which they don't explain unless you read the PDF.

Curb Weight: 4,300lbs
GVWR: 10,000lbs
Payload Capacity: 5,700lbs

But, that's getting off-track from the main topic of truck capacity, sorry!

[Jayzc529]

Drove a 2012 Ecoboost yesterday. Very impressive. Under 7 sec 0-60! I'm sold. I'm not normally a forced induction fan but it makes a lot of sense in this case. Twin turbo with big torque when you need it and good gas mileage when you don't. In a truck? Where do I sign up!

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/07/2...ty-22-highway/

Jake

If you are sold on the power, torque, and towing capacity great. If you are thinking that you will get good gas mileage while using any of the above three move on. I am up to a whopping 16.1mpg driving 90pct highway. Truck has about 3500 miles as of now. 2012 Supercab Fx4 3.73 rear gears. 20mpg is possible on the highway if you are willing to be a road hazard.
Again, I love the truck but I would not buy one again if fuel mileage was my ultimate goal.

[Eric]

If you are sold on the power, torque, and towing capacity great. If you are thinking that you will get good gas mileage while using any of the above three move on. I am up to a whopping 16.1mpg driving 90pct highway. Truck has about 3500 miles as of now. 2012 Supercab Fx4 3.73 rear gears. 20mpg is possible on the highway if you are willing to be a road hazard.
Again, I love the truck but I would not buy one again if fuel mileage was my ultimate goal.

For reference, my F250 with the 6.7L diesel (crew cab, 3.73 fx4) has averaged 16.7 mpg and has just ticked over 11,000 miles (bought in mid december). I was hopping this truck would get closer to the cummins 20mpg, but it doesn't look likely.

[Jayzc529]

Eric,

How do you like the "scorpion"? I put my '98 Dodge 2500 Cummins out to pasture for the ecoboost. The Ford is alot nicer truck but sadly gets worse fuel mileage.
I say sadly because the last time i dynoed the cummins it put down almost 800ft/lb of torque and still got 18mpg on the way home.

[Eric]

Eric,

How do you like the "scorpion"? I put my '98 Dodge 2500 Cummins out to pasture for the ecoboost. The Ford is alot nicer truck but sadly gets worse fuel mileage.
I say sadly because the last time i dynoed the cummins it put down almost 800ft/lb of torque and still got 18mpg on the way home.

Scorpion? is that a nickname for the new PSD?

I had a 2004 F250 a few years back and had lots and lots of problems with it almost from day one. This new truck seams to be doing well, and I'm not reading the forum hate on the motor like the 6.0L got. I've heard that ford bought the technology for this motor from cummins when they finally gave international a foot in the ass after the 6.0 and 6.4L.
Overall I like the new truck over my last one much much better! The fit and finish feels better in the new one, and having 4wd is a great advantage.

We use old 98 ish dodges in the AF for bobtails. Those motors are fantastic, but the truck itself is a gigantic POS! I've never seen duct tape used in so many ways by motor pool...

[junkyard_sal]

Jake,

I am also looking at tow vehicles. My first choice would be a Suburban 3/4 ton HD. That is am amazing vehicle and there is supposed to be a plan to pair it with the Chevy Duramax Diesel. Get one with the G80 locking differential and you have a dream truck. In my situation, I need to share the vehicle with my wife and she is saying no joy to a Suburban.

So we are looking for an 2008-2010 Toyota 4Runner. It will limit be to an open AL trailer since it is rated up to 5000lbs towing capacity but it is a nice truck.

[Brendan]

Carl, What about a Grand Cherokee? They can tow up to 7400lbs... BMW X5d pulling a BRE Aerovault maybe?

I towed with a 2005 Nissan XTerra with a 6-speed manual before I got my F150. It worked pretty well if you loaded carefully and it was a pretty fun little truck with the manual tranny, although I did worry about the clutch with low speed maneuvering with the trailer...

[Jayzc529]

Scorpion? is that a nickname for the new PSD?

I had a 2004 F250 a few years back and had lots and lots of problems with it almost from day one. This new truck seams to be doing well, and I'm not reading the forum hate on the motor like the 6.0L got. I've heard that ford bought the technology for this motor from cummins when they finally gave international a foot in the ass after the 6.0 and 6.4L.
Overall I like the new truck over my last one much much better! The fit and finish feels better in the new one, and having 4wd is a great advantage.

We use old 98 ish dodges in the AF for bobtails. Those motors are fantastic, but the truck itself is a gigantic POS! I've never seen duct tape used in so many ways by motor pool...

Scorpion is the nickname for the 6.7 because with the reverse flow heads and the position of the turbo it supossedly mimics a scorpion stinger.

I've not been a Ford fan in the past but I think they are putting out the best pickups by far right now. Fit and finish is close to luxury car standards.

My old Dodge's drivetrain will probably go another 200k miles but the truck was starting to nickle and dime me too much. Lol about the duct tape!

[Jayzc529]

Jake,

I am also looking at tow vehicles. My first choice would be a Suburban 3/4 ton HD. That is am amazing vehicle and there is supposed to be a plan to pair it with the Chevy Duramax Diesel. Get one with the G80 locking differential and you have a dream truck. In my situation, I need to share the vehicle with my wife and she is saying no joy to a Suburban.

So we are looking for an 2008-2010 Toyota 4Runner. It will limit be to an open AL trailer since it is rated up to 5000lbs towing capacity but it is a nice truck.

Carl,

I wouldn't wait on the Duramax Suburban. GM has had the opportunity to make that happen for the past 10+ years. And with the way fuel prices are rising I seriously doubt they would pull the trigger in this environment.

I agree with Brendan on the Grand Cherokee. The Dodge Durango is supposed to be a mule as well.

[JS154]

We've had two Tundras. An 04 4.6L Access cab and now a '10 5.7L crewmax.

Bottom line:

dead nuts reliable
both tow like champs - underrated towing limits.
gas mileage sucks on both
small fuel tank.
the 5.7 crewmax has a huge cab

engine, brakes, interior, headlights, all great.
5.7L has nice orange gauges - easy on the eyes at night like my BMW. The headlight beam pattern is very effective and you can upgrade the bulbs to high efficieny ones that put out tons of light without drawing extra wattage. Little things like that make a difference on long tows.

The tank is only 26.5 gals. Yaright. Max I can get in the tank is 24, and that's topping it till the fuel comes out the filler. Towing a 22' steel enclosed haulmark, loaded up good, (square-corner box) we get 10 mpg when towing. overall average of towing and DD usage (mostly sity/town DD usage) is 13.4MPG.

Did I mention gas mileage sucks? Combined with a small tank, it makes for crappy range when towing halfway across the country.

My only real complaints are the small tank and sucky mileage. Otherwise it;s a great tow vehicle and pulls like a champ.
We did not need a deisel, we are not pulling that much weight, and a deisel dually would make a sucky sucky DD for us.

[junkyard_sal]

I am selling the Cherokee's towing capacity. Its wheelbase is only slightly longer than a 4Runner and the motor specs are also similar.

The 4Runner is a compromise and like all compromises it is not perfect. On the plus side you can hardly kill a 4Runner, they are pretty cheap used, (hoping for a straight trade for my 2008 Outback XT manual, with 30k miles), and there are tons of them in salvages for parts. Lastly, if the crap really hits the fan they can easily be converted into an assault vehicle as can be easily seen on the nightly news.

[Jake]

If you are sold on the power, torque, and towing capacity great. If you are thinking that you will get good gas mileage while using any of the above three move on. I am up to a whopping 16.1mpg driving 90pct highway. Truck has about 3500 miles as of now. 2012 Supercab Fx4 3.73 rear gears. 20mpg is possible on the highway if you are willing to be a road hazard.
Again, I love the truck but I would not buy one again if fuel mileage was my ultimate goal.

No shit? 16.1mpg is not horrible but not nearly as good as I was hoping. I was looking at the 2012 Lariat with 3.73 gears as a DD, still undecided about 4wd though. At this point I feel like it's either that or something used and cheap and not used as a DD. If I go that route then I'll pick up a hybrid as a DD. I live 25 miles from work.

Jake

[Jayzc529]

In the scheme of things 16mpg isn't terrible but when the trucks are advertised to get 21 highway mpg it is a disappointment. Mileage is getting slightly better as i am up to 4000 miles now and up to 16.3mpg. Racking up the miles so quick as my daily commute is 200 miles. I have tried varying my speed to see if it affected the mileage much and to my dismay it hasn't.
A two wheel drive with a lower numbered gear might get the mpg Ford advertises. Four wheel drive is pretty much a necessity over here though so i didn't have much of a choice.
I'm not bashing the truck i'm just a little salty right now. I made my final decision based on projected fuel mileage. I picked the Ecoboost over a 2006-07 Chevy 2500HD Duramax as I thought the added mpg of the Ford would offset the higher price of diesel for the Chevy. Right now it looks like a wash. And I would have spent at least 10k less for the Chevy. Well...there went my 2.5 build.lol