$15K Rule Out-dated?

[M3USA]

Has the market increased so much that the $15K rule (for a well-maintained E30M3 under 100K that needs no additional work) is no longer reasonable?

I recently looked at a 88 Silver/Grey M3 in Northern CA with 90K miles. Pre-purchase inspection found at least $2000 worth of work to bring the car to sound mechanical condition. The seller is asking for $15K prior to any work. Don't get me wrong, the car has been well-kept and in extremely good condition. Just worn control arms, flex disc and others need to be replaced.

A current search of M3s for sale turned out:
1990 Silver/Grey E30 M3 70K mi $19000, Houston, TX
1990 BMW Red/Blk M3 133000 $14999, Los Angeles, CA
VIRGIN M3 1988 Diamond Blk/red 91,800 $16,900 Anaheim CA
Very Nice 1988 White 78,000 $16,500 camden SC
Euro M3 Super Clean 1987 Diamnd Black 93,000 $16,000 Toronto
1988 E30 M3 2.5L 1988 White 190,000 $15,000 Fresno CO
1988 M3, wht/red 156k $14500
1988 BMW M3 Alpine White 156,000 $14,900 Seattle WA

Many of the above cars need some minor work. Most say that no work is needed. It seems like cars with under 100K miles are asking for around $17-19K. Cars well over 100K are asking for at least $15K and usually quite a bit more. The last car in Seattle is asking for almost $15K and the AC is not even working!

Has the market price gone up so much on these cars? Does the $15K rule need to be changed to $17-19K rule or are these simply over-optimistic sellers?

Thanks,
Jim

[Steve88M3]

Two grand seems like a lot, what sort of stuff did it need?


But I noticed this as well and I do believe that the market has gone up a little. I paid $14.5k for my car 4 years ago but I wouldn't ask more than that today.

[TeamM3]

IMO those high mileage cars are overpriced, I saw lots of them during my search, many are still FS ... hello

[M3USA]

1. Replace lower control arm ($1000)
2. Cracked flex disc ($400)
3. Faulty car alarm which drains out the battery
4. Repair and install leaky windshield washer tank
5. Repair rust spot under windshield washer tank
6. Repair 2 bent rear rims

[HANDBLT]

Originally posted by M3USA
1. Replace lower control arm ($1000)
2. Cracked flex disc ($400)
3. Faulty car alarm which drains out the battery
4. Repair and install leaky windshield washer tank
5. Repair rust spot under windshield washer tank
6. Repair 2 bent rear rims

Holy Cow Batman! Those markups and labor rates are insane. It should look more like this:

1. Replace lower control arms ($500) Do it yourself
2. Cracked flex disc ($80) Do it yourself
3. Faulty car alarm which drains out the battery- Troubleshoot it yourself: FREE
4. Repair and install leaky windshield washer tank $30 from dealer
5. Repair rust spot under windshield washer tank: No clue $100?
6. Repair 2 bent rear rims: replace them I just bought two very nice wheels for $130.


T

[JLee]

i think the $15K rule is definitely outdated but $2K does seem like a lot for the list you have.

jeff

[UNHCLL]

I think there has been so much talk of "The $15k Rule" that most people consider it the starting price they'll ask for their cars, no matter what condition they are in.

Keep looking, you'll find one that fits your criteria and is fairly priced. Ditto on the others comments about those labor rates!!!!

[1990m3]

hey tony, did you get those wheels yet? And like he says, those items are about $1000 at most. The rust under the windshield can get expensive if they break the glass when they pull the old windshield.

Dave

[Steve88M3]

Originally posted by M3USA
1. Replace lower control arm ($1000)
2. Cracked flex disc ($400)
3. Faulty car alarm which drains out the battery
4. Repair and install leaky windshield washer tank
5. Repair rust spot under windshield washer tank
6. Repair 2 bent rear rims

Jeez, good thing I asked. Those prices are bonkers!


I'd say a grand at the very most for replacing all of those things.

[88m3aw]

Hello Jim and Everyone,

I am the guy with the '88 in Seattle. I am asking $14,500 for the car. Before my fellow members pass judgements on my car and asking price, here are the details:

The car:
1988
white/red
I am the 3rd owner (2nd owner owned it for 14 years, since 1990)
West coast vehicle
all panels original except driver's fender was replaced by fender bender in 1997. Replaced with OEM fender, less than $1000 damage (done by San Francisco BMW).
all receipt back to 1997. Prior receipts loss due to moves by 2nd owner.
very good condition inside and out. no rust, major dents or scratches. Clean vehicle with a clean title. Never abused, or raced. I took the car to ONE BMW driving event in Aug.

The car drives great! No vibrations, handle great and very fun. The car feels better and better at higher speed!

Here are the details on the recent work (less than 6 months, most services/parts were done within 2 months): I tried to indicate the parts ONLY in (), ?s are I can't remember.

-ignition wires ($180)
-cap ($80)
-rotor ($25)
-valve cover gasket (?)
-oil cooler lines ($120)
-power steering line (?)
-radiator (?)
-water pump (?)
-shocks, all the way around (~$200)
-Sach clutch kit ($375)
-engine mounts (~$120)
-upgraded engine subframe, year 1990+ model (~$400)
-engine mounts (~$120)
-upper strut mounts ($100)
-oil pan gaskets (~$50)
-oil baffler ($80)
-engine tensioner (~$60)
-control arms (~$200)
-control arms bushings ($200)
-tie rods ($200)
-transmission mounts ($80)
-flex disc ($100)
-center bearing ($80)
-differential reseal ($60)
-drilled rotors, all the way around ($300)
-brake pads (~$100)
-stainless brake lines ($90)
-engine splash shield ($160)
-short shifter ($100)
-Supersprint exhaust (used $200)
-carpet ($80)
-fog light ($30)
-brakes' wire looms redone/re-insulated (?)

The above list may not be complete, there may be other services/parts which I missed, but I hope you got the picture. All parts replaced are BMW OEM or equal (i.e. Zimmerman rotors, etc...). No cheap parts. Fluids replaced are Super Blue brake fluid, Red Line and Mobile 1.

I have receipts of $4,500+ in labor and ~$2,000 in parts. All done by a local E30 M3 specialist. Recent compression check confirmed the engine is still strong (220, 225, 215, 215) done by Stevens Creek BMW in Santa Clara, CA on 7/14/2004.

I haven't had a chance to do the air conditioner. I was planning to keep the car but I have some property interests at this time.

I am very familar with E30 M3s problem and maintenance areas. I have owned 6-7 BMWs over 10+ years.

The labor rate for the work is $75 per hour. Examples, changing out the engine subframe and engine mounts took around 6-7 hours, clutch 4-5 hours, brake rotors/pads/lines 4-5 hours.

Do the math and let me know if I am crazy about my asking price. Before you comment, please having some prior experience/knowledge in rates/time of repair work/cost of parts, etc...

Jim/Everyone,

One thing to consider, even with a low mileage car, there are parts NEEDING to be replace (i.e. no rubber parts last for 10+ years!). Buy my car, and I'll fix the air conditioner at no charge! :-)



Thanks,
Bruce
:D

[88m3aw]

other services:

Inspection service (July 2003)
engine compartment recently steamed clean
new tires -Dunlop SP5000 215/50/15s

Most of the service work done by a professional BMW technican at professional shop. I did simple work (i.e. exhaust, ignition wires, valve cover gasket, etc...) myself.

Can't compare "do-it-yourself" price versus "professional" service. One advice to potential buyers, it is better to over estimate on the repair work than underestimate. Get estimates at professional rates. There are times I said I was going to do it myself but never found the time, so I bit the bullet!

Oh, one more thing, these parts for these cars cost alot!!! (i.e. $177 for ignition wires! not including the cap and rotor).

[M3USA]

Hi Bruce,

I understand where you are coming from. However, I am not sure that the maintenance costs and the costs to replace and repair worn-out parts should be added when figuring the market price of a car. Car pricing depends on the age, mileage and condition of the car. On the other hand, cost of maintenace and repair depends on the cost of parts and labor. Example, a 1995 Honda Civic with 130K in excellent condition may be worth $3K; another poorly kept 95 Civic may be restored to excellent condition after $6K worth of work, but will never be worth more than $3K.

I know it is very unfair to judge the price of a car that I haven't even seen in person. I just find $15K for M3 over 150K miles expensive...

Regards,
Jim

[WJones]

Originally posted by TeamM3
IMO those high mileage cars are overpriced, I saw lots of them during my search, many are still FS ... hello

I agree.

I think the rule still applies if you are patient with your search.

[Mmark]

These cars are now too old to qualify for automobile finance rates .
so it may now be the 15k + 15k rule, Caveat Emptor..
m

[JLee]

bruce, your laundry list sounds like mine...

how many miles are on your car ?? (or did I miss that ?)

Jeff